We have another situation and it involves our lightening rod for change, Jeff. Thank you Jeff for taking the voltage for us again. I think the Olympus based parents and administrators in your snotty parent community must be having fun with this, targeting you with those bolts of lightning. The only thing is that, unlike the gods, these people whom you describe are far from all-knowing with special powers. They are, in fact, petty meddlers in your professional development. I would call them assholes, in fact. Be strong, is all I can say.
Keeping you strong below are the bad ass Latin team members of this PLC. How? Well, over the past few days they have been having their own discussion about how to deal with your(almost intolerable) situation. It has been a marvelous coming together of group members to fend off the attack. It’s all described below thanks to John, who cobbled all the emails together, and thank you so much for that, John.
I have a simple point to make here. We can talk here all we want about TPRS/CI and how to get better at it, but if our mental health is gone due to unwarranted and, quite frankly, stupid attacks by parents and lukewarm responses by the very administrators who are supposed to be supporting us and be up on best practices, standards, etc. but simply aren’t (see below for more on that), then we can’t go on.
Therefore, we must add to our adage that “discipline precedes instruction”, this: A proper way to respond to being attacked must precede ANYTHING that we do in our classrooms – all depends on how much support we have. Therefore, the dialogue below becomes of extreme importance to us, especially those who are alone in this work. Personally, I have never been alone bc I started out as Susan Gross’ student and moved to DPS, so I can’t imagine how difficult it must be emotionally for you, Jeff.
I am making a category for this called “When Attacked”. Here is John’s synopsis. He states, in addition:
…this is important stuff, these are the battles we need to fight, and to fight them in a way that will keep us from spinning our martyr wheels and getting nowhere….I included the entire interchange….I think the whole thing is of value, for the process of how we are working these issues out as supportive colleagues….
One more thing. Both Bob Patrick and John wrote in these email exchanges “letters” to Jeff’s AP and to parents. I think that they are golden. We can all use such letters and I am sure that Bob and John would encourage us to cut and paste them for our own use (they are directed to Latin but apply to all of us) when we experience what Jeff is going through, which I wouldn’t wish on my dog.
The letters are in purpleso that you can easily identify them below. I place them up there with jen’s Great Rubric (jGR) and Andrew’s Writing Beast (aWB). I am also going to make the letters the subject of a separate post to make them easy to find and call them “John’s Great Letter” (jGL) and “Bob’s Great Letters” (bGL).
Drum roll please:
John introduces: I am posting this thread at the request of Ben (see his email below—the one that ends with “Princeton my ass”). Jeffrey has been dealing with some push-back from classically trained parents who want a 4%er education for their darling daughter, even if it is at the expense of everyone else in the room. In this string of emails, we tackle strategies for dealing with the parents directly, as well as the importance of getting one’s administrators on the CI bandwagon.
John
Original message from Jeffrey Brickler:
Okay, it seems that I have upset the gods in heaven and they are raining down a storm upon me. I received another email from a parent of a very good student in Latin II. She is quite bright and I have given her a job as story writer and she does a fantastic job. However, here is an email from her mom. The mom likes me very much, but she learned Latin in a very traditional way at a very traditional high school 30 years ago. I suspect that we will work things out, but this kind of thing causes me immense stress. See email below.
I also just spoke with my assistant principal at my middle school (the same school where I had the two other difficult parents), who said that some parents are complaining about what I am doing in the classroom and in fact these parents have contacted some professors at Princeton University to fact check what I am doing in my class. I don’t have the details yet, but I will forward them as soon as I get them. I really think that I am doing the right thing, but the fiery storm of criticism and mistrust is burning me down to the ground. I don’t know if I can sustain this kind of attack. The AP said that we have to figure this situation out because we cannot continue to have this kind of criticism. I teach in an upper middle class/upper class neighborhood.
I need some help.
Jeff
Here is the email of the parent from above:
Dear Mr. Brickler, As you may recall, one of the reasons M chose Turpin over Anderson was your Latin Class. This year it seems that your curriculum and style have changed significantly. I am hoping that you will explain to me the changes and where you expect them to lead. Some of the kids, including M, are confused and grumbling about the changes. If Latin were a modern spoken language, I would understand the increased focus on conversational Latin. Since it is not, your objective is unclear. In my mind, grammar, vocabulary, and written Latin are extremely important, as is mythology to help us understand Latin as the basis for so much of our background. I know that you are a good and committed teacher and appreciate all the time you devote to the kids outside of the classroom. Your methods and objectives had been crystal clear and now we need your help going forward.
This next email is from Bob Patrick:
Dear Jeffrey,
I am going to write now as if I were responding to the complaining parent(s) and then, in a separate paragraph, to the administrator. Their varying levels of discomfort which are coming to you right now as mostly angry complaints, really can be an opportunity to gain great support for your program and what you are doing, but you have to help them really see what you are doing.
Dear Concerned Parent:
I appreciate the time and interest that you have taken to write me about your daughter’s experience in my class. I hear the concern in the words you write. You are absolutely right. Things have changed both in how I teach my class and in my understanding of the very best ways of teaching Latin. After considerable study and preparation over the last few years, I have begun making changes in how I teach and helps students at our school learn. I am absolutely convinced that the approaches that I am using will help all of the students in my classroom make good progress in Latin. I could not have said better than you did in your letter why I believe that EVERY student deserves an education in Latin: it connects all the dots in our culture from mythology to vocabulary, history, law, religion, philosophy and the sciences. In the past, teaching Latin with the traditional methods that you and I experienced, we both know that far too many students were not able to keep up and make progress in Latin. That has been my own experience both as a student and a teacher. The traditional methods don’t really work well for all kinds of learners.
I can point to your own daughter’s work as a wonderful example of the many things that are happening this year in my Latin classes that have NEVER happened before. I often ask your daughter to serve as the “scriptor” in the class when we are telling a story. I do this because she is already so good at listening and understanding. Teaching this way allows me, day by day, to give advanced students extra opportunity to go deeper, and struggling students to firm up their work. Your daughter is now capable of writing down the stories that we are telling in VERY good Latin. I have never had Latin 2 students capable of that level of writing until this year. I have even seen students in college Latin classes who cannot do what your daughter is doing. She is just one example. While I cannot talk about other students and their work with you, I can assure you that this kind of progress is happening across all of classes, all levels precisely because of the changes I have made in my teaching and learning practices. I cannot imagine going back to methods that simply were not ever this productive.
I want you to know that this kind of work is being done all over the country right now in Latin classrooms. In all of the schools that I am aware of (via a Latin teacher list serve) the teachers and programs that teach this way are growing. This movement, of creating Comprehensible Input Latin programs, is happening largely at the secondary level, largely in schools that have high college preparatory and college acceptance rates. This work is beginning to find its way into university programs, but this is an example of where university programs are beginning to learn from us. If you are interested in more information about this kind of work, I can supply you with some links and publications to consider.
Please know how much I appreciate hearing from you, and please know that anything that you can do to help other parents with similar questions understand why we are making these changes will be welcome. If nothing else, urge those with questions to be in contact. I look forward to opportunities to share this good work with as many people in our community as possible.
Dear Administrator:
I appreciate the support that you are giving me as I make some significant changes in the way I teach and help students learn Latin. (at this point, repeat much of what I said above to the parent about why I have made these changes, emphasizing how it helps EVERY KIND OF LEARNER make progress, and how it helps you DIFFERENTIATE learning on a daily basis.)
I did not come to these changes overnight, but have been participating in online and real time workshops, studies and practice groups that are doing the same things in Latin classrooms around the country. Various Latin teachers have been presenting workshops and papers on creating “Comprehensible Input” classrooms for several years now at all of our major conferences (in particular the American Classical League). (repeat information here about programs that I know about where college prep schools are using this, programs are growing, and all kinds of learners are being successful.)
I know that you are hearing from parents who are concerned about the changes. I know that if you can help me help them understand how beneficial this approach is for all of their children, they will son come to love this approach as well. If you know of opportunities where I might address parent groups about these exciting new changes, I would appreciate that. Sincerely,
So, Jeffrey, what I am trying to illustrate is the kind of conversation, emails, newsletters, talks, etc that I would look to give, send, write anywhere you have the opportunity. You become an enthusiastic advocate for what you KNOW works. Why would anyone want you to stop doing what works? The only reason is because they don’t know what’s working. So, you have to get the word out, and there can be any number of ways to do this. I have literally done all of this: written letters, emails, newsletter articles, spoken at PTA meetings, counselor meetings, Civic organizations. I advocate what I do on my website and I go to and offer workshops at conferences about these things. I collect articles and references from Stephen Krashen and other teachers who are doing this work and cite them when I am writing and speaking.
For what it’s worth–it’s always hard with a class that started learning Latin the old way to make the change. The complainers in those classes will always be the 4 percenters because they know how to do well in a traditional classroom. “doing well” unfortunately means getting their A, but as we know, it does not mean really learning Latin. This is why we must make these changes.
Okay. I’ve written a lot. I hope some of this is helpful. Bob
From David Maust:
Jeff,
Sorry to hear about this and I feel for you too. It’s hard enough doing what we do without attacks like this.
My initial thought is in response to the parent would be to steer her away from thinking that you are doing “conversational Latin” and help her understand that you are using Comprehensible Input instruction. CI instruction includes text, reading, translation, vocabulary and grammatical knowledge, but all these things are learned in context and actual use, rather than in a disconnected way. Perhaps you can cite the ACTFL standards and give some examples of readings you have made with the kids from the story scripts that will show her how you are teaching “vocabulary and grammar” in context, usage and intensive repetition.
It seems to me that the fact that she talks about “conversational Latin” is an indication that she doesn’t really understand what you are doing at the core of your instruction. I think using this term in general may be misleading to those especially who have taken Latin in a traditional way and just can’t fathom that people even CAN speak it. Trying to focus her attention on the parts of your instruction that would be in her paradigm like reading, translation, vocabulary and usage of grammatical forms, inflections, etc, but showing her how you teach those things in ways that help all students be successful would be a good approach.
Maybe you could also offer to give this student supplemental homework of a more “traditional” nature (i.e. for those kids who need some of the conscious learning stuff so they feel like they are learning as in their other classes. But I wouldn’t go there first, only maybe if you feel you need to if you can’t first convince her of the validity of what you are doing.
As far as the whole Princeton thing – I agree with Bob – powerplay stuff. I don’t have to deal with this kind of thing much, not teaching in a high socially-economically classed school. If someone challenged me on this, I would refer them to a couple college professors in my area who know me and trust what I do in the classroom. I don’t know if something like this would be an option for you. One other idea, if the parents need PROOF of what you’re doing – there was an article a while back about teaching ancient Hebrew comprehensively that was very favorable toward CI methods and was conducted in a college setting. I’ll try to find it and email it to you. Beyond that, I’m curious to hear what the everyone else has to say about this. It angers me that parents would “check-out” what you’re doing like this, challenging your integrity as a professional in your field.
Valete, David
From John Piazza:
Jeff, you wrote: “The AP said that we have to figure this situation out because we cannot continue to have this kind of criticism” For me, this is your biggest problem, because if you have an AP who doubts you and whose primary objective is to placate parents and avoid criticism even if those parents are COMPLETELY OFF BASE, you in fact don’t have any support in your school, professionally and emotionally. If you can convince the AP that you are in the right, that the complaining parents are in the super-minority, however loud they complain and whatever ivy league professors they consult, and that he has your back, then you can move forward.
So I’d say, before you respond directly to parents making use of some of the excellent suggestions from David and Bob, put your energies into convincing your AP, and get him completely on your side so that he can address parent complaints (which is his job). A big reason behind his hesitancy, I’m guessing, is that he isn’t sure how to respond to these parents. He SHOULD be able to say something like:
“Mr. Brickler is implementing best practices in language instruction. I know this is not common among Latin teachers, many of whom refuse to change and get in line with the research on language acquisition and the practices which help ALL kinds of learners, but his teaching is in line with our school’s mission. In addition, there is a lot of research out there that supports Mr. Brickler in not giving homework. This supports families by mitigating the intrusion of school curriculum into family life, which often creates conflict and takes away from those precious evening hours.You mentioned that you have contacted university professors regarding Mr. Brickler’s teaching. Professors of linguistics and of education will acknowledge that comprehensible input based strategies are part of the ACTFL standards, and of the approach of many language departments. Professors who teach Latin at the college level are dealing with a very different set of learners, and their thoughts on pedagogy are not very helpful to middle school and high school educators. Other teachers, may differ with Mr. Brickler, but I am confident that Mr. Brickler’s pedagogy is age appropriate. It is clear that your daughter is learning Latin and is meeting all of our school’s expectations regarding our standards and learning goals. If your daughter is interested in working ahead independently at home, I’m sure Mr. Brickler would be happy to provide her with additional materials. etc.”
So the question is, what will it take for you to bring your AP to the place where he can confidently respond in this way to these kinds of parents. If you do this once, you won’t have to do it again. If you try to tackle every parent complaint directly, you will have to do this over and over again, with your AP sitting on the sidelines, in effect forcing you to do his job.
John
From Ben:
The question about getting them to read must be addressed. You need to get them reading stories early on. It’s part of TPRS and why it works. if you want, you could structure your week as per my Weekly Schedule 2013 (see categories on the PLC page) where they read stories that emerge from the stories. They could also read novels for ten min. a day to start class. But definitely more reading. If the parents have any case against you that is legit, it may be there. I love what Bob said about the fact that the parent used the term conversational Latin. It shows total ignorance, but it is what it is. David, in his pragmatic way, suggests good concrete suggestions. Another stupid parent story! Not to mention an admin. who can’t show up with the knowledge to defend you. Jeff you will prevail here. We just need to be specific about what to do now. Princeton my ass.
From Jeff:
First and foremost, let me again say thanks to all of this. It is really helpful.
I am happy to see all of this on the blog. I never really thought that it would affect me politically with the PLC being a closed setting. Let’s hope that it remains safe.
Nevertheless, let’s get it up there and knock it around. I could really use some time and reading to process it.
Latin Folks: What do you have your students read? Are you simply reading the stories you create? Are you creating parallel stories? For me, there are serious time constraints, namely that I really have no plan time during school nor time after school to do much work. When I’m not reading the blog, I am trying to spend time with my wife and 16 month old son.
I know that reading is so important to TPRS. We do read the story after we create it. There are no novels in Latin that our students can do. I can do embedded readings, but again I don’t have the time to write them. I can do embedded readings of the textbook, but again I don’t have much time.
I will begin to have them read and reread the stories we already created and I’ll take a look at the PLC to see what is there in terms of the schedule.
Jeff, who just wants to do a good job, but feels like he is a giant failure.
From Bob:
Jeffrey, if you are reading the stories you create, then you really ARE reading with them. Now, how to add to that and keep the work at a minimum for you. You mention that you have Ecce. You might select some of the early stories to have them read, and then get some ideas from them for “where do you see this going next”. Then, you create a parallel or extension of the story.
www.tarheelreader.org has a series called “Gilbo” in 17 installments. They are fun, cute, and easy. You could project them on the wall and read them, and since the series does not end with a true ending, you could then get your students to help you create your own Gilbo ending or extensions.
And so it goes. Also, Laura Gibbs is doing all kinds of things with fables, proverbs etc., and all for free. Her blog is www.bestlatin.net. You will see all that she is up to, and you can use any of it that you want. I suggest looking at Fabulae Faciles as easy entry, short stories that could even be expanded on, or not, and the pictures she has of cats, every day, called lolcat.
I maintain that you could take simply what Laura is offering and teach from it, circle it, embed it, extend it, etc forever without ever looking at another textbook. It’s all free, and more than you can ever imagine using.
Hope that helps.
Bob