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Scope and Sequence 4 – Robert Harrell
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12 thoughts on “Scope and Sequence 4 – Robert Harrell”
#5
AMEN!
That’s why kids aren’t ready for AP after 3 years of any language.
#5. is what stumps me when I am told that we need to have a common assessment within our department. What do your common assessments look like? Can you all please share?
Thank you.
Hey, MB! How are you? All rested up? It was so fun meeting you in San Diego.
You can see a nice sample of my common assessment/administration-pleasing test if you go to:
http://www.ciep.fr/dilf/receptionorale1.php
There is something similar for Spanish at:
http://www.dele.org/uploads/test/A1/lectura_auditiva.pdf
If you like it, let me know!
Be well, my dear!! Those were some good times we had!
This DELF assessment looks similar to the NY Regents test which no longer exists. The problem we face as CI teachers is in part being taken seriously by naysayers. I think that some kind of benchmark to see what the kids can do with the language is what sets CI kids apart from their peers in traditional classrooms. If anyone is teaching IB or AP, we somehow, in a CI framework, need to scaffold the kids in that direction. Just hanging out with the kids talking French may not get us where we want to be. For better or worse we need data. It’s the way the game is played. We just have to be more resourceful. We just need to be better than…
I agree that we need to have more data! Krashen’s big push during NTPRS this year was for more of us to be doing research and publishing data. If someone is doing IB/AP, they should keep track of that data and publish it as it shows how TPRS kids fare against a national norm. I’m also trying to find some kind of standardized test to do with my kids (like Michael Miller does) to start collecting some data like that, but we’ll see. I don’t want to take away too much class time (CI time, really) testing! But I agree, data data data. Totally the way the game is played.
Nathan I just got this from Ben Lev and he has requested some specific responses from the group so please chime in. It was directed to Dr. Krashen:
Dr. Krashen:
I have an opportunity to compare a grammar-based Spanish 1 class (my first time teaching community college, this fall semester, no flexibility about using the text) and my high school TPRS Spanish 1 class. I’m wondering if there would be any objective basis for comparison.
Would you be willing to share any ideas for experimental design, common assessment that I should pursue? For example, should I avoid doing any CI/TPRS with the grammar group? Should I avoid giving any grammar (except popups) with the TPRS class?
Any other thoughts here?
Ben Lev
Sebastopol, CA
Older is faster. I wouldn’t compare these two.
This is the best series ever.
One question. Robert, when you say “the skills develop in a natural order: listening, speaking, reading, writing” do you mean to say that reading will typically happen after speaking? Or are you thinking of them as separate areas, as in ‘listening, speaking; reading, writing’?
I’d like to Robert’s thoughts on this, too. Reading comprehension in Chinese is on my mind a lot. Could be a different answer for Chinese than for more phonetic languages, to some degree? I know there’s been discussion about when to introduce and expect reading here before.
Hi everyone,
Sorry I’ve been MIA, but I’ve been travelling; I even sailed on a replica of a medieval ship, visited Germany’s only island in the high seas, and got caught in a North Sea squall – though not all on the same sailing.
Anyway, my personal belief is that speaking and writing definitely follow listening and reading, respectively. For a first-language learner, the order I listed is the order in which the skills are acquired. Since we are dealing with (supposedly) literate students in high school, the order may be more listening, reading, speaking, writing. If so, this would be one area in which second-language acquisition in “captivity” differs from first-language acquisition “in the wild”.
Definitely an area for further research, thought and discussion.
Wow Robert, sounds like a great trip. Your students are lucky to have such an adventurous teacher.
I totally agree with what you say above Robert, comparing the wild to captivity. I’ve seen certain students go in this order: listening, reading, writing, speaking. BUt most listening, speaking (if only a word or two), reading, writing. It all depends on the teacher though really, and what vehicle they select. But really, not all that important, as long as we all agree that input of one sort should well precede output of that same sort.
I’m really enjoying these installments. Looking forward to #11.
We are pretty certain now after many years of looking at it that the teachers in Denver Public Schools who have their kids read the most that year show the highest gains in the district on writing. It is a pattern we have seen. Focusing on writing does little for writing scores. Reading does.