Unlock with PatreonThe Problem with CI
To view this content, you must be a member of Ben’s Patreon at $10 or more Unlock with PatreonAlready a qualifying Patreon member? Refresh to
Classroom Management
Share:
Facebook
Twitter
Pinterest
LinkedIn
Ben Slavic
Get The Latest Updates
Subscribe to Our Mailing List
No spam, notifications only about new products, updates.
Related Posts
CI and the Research (cont.)
To view this content, you must be a member of Ben’s Patreon at $10 or more Unlock with PatreonAlready a qualifying Patreon member? Refresh to
Research Question
To view this content, you must be a member of Ben’s Patreon at $10 or more Unlock with PatreonAlready a qualifying Patreon member? Refresh to
We Have the Research
To view this content, you must be a member of Ben’s Patreon at $10 or more Unlock with PatreonAlready a qualifying Patreon member? Refresh to
13 thoughts on “Classroom Management”
I don’t know what it is that I am seeing in my current situation. NT CI has been a blessing but at my school I have level 2 Spanish students who came from a very cookie cutter textbook teacher. Some are irate complainers and “cannot learn this way”. They are used to semantic sets or lists and grammar explanations because it seems like they are learning more than in my class. It’s only a few vocal ones but I also have TOO many heritage Speakers in my class. They too have their paradigms as well because they got placed at level 1 because their parents or they “want to learn correct” Spanish. We also do not have a Spanish heritage speakers class for 7th graders.
So I wonder if NT CI could work for me next year. I sat with my principal and I am going to meet with my colleague who also teaches Spanish 2. We will design together a common assessment. I looked at my colleague’s assessments and I tell myself that I can barely pass his tests on negative and positive commands. Late aquired stuff yes. So, I’m in a funk lately. Why can’t we just have fun?
Those native speakers and complainers may be too much. Can’t you just have regular students? Who could fault you if you gave up what you know are best practices in order to keep your job and shut people up and keep the peace in the building?
There’s light at the end of the tunnel. We got an extra counselor, my colleague wants me to be department chair and I may switch to Spanish I which will (should) have no native speakers what so ever. All I need is my already supportive principal on board.
They need to appreciate what they have in you – a rare talent who gets the work done on every level and can deliver, and can move their school into best WL practices for the new century. (Not such a new century anymore – it’s aging fast!)
Hmm… “and move their school into best WL practices for the new century. ” That’s nice of you Ben. The principal himself said that he wanted to highlight what I already do. So I might toss them a bone somehow… a Freewrite number count of a non-native speaker, student testimonies, parent testimonies. Any ideas?
I guess the free write word count idea is ok. It’s in your favor bc I can’t see how any grammar trained kid can write with any creativity and authenticity.
But the thing is that I just don’t see these two worlds as mixing. There is no common ground so how can there be a common assessment? I would just wait it out. OR you could have your kids take the test and fail those grammar things and then pull out 100 strong parent and student testimonials and let them make of them what they will.
When you design the common assessment w the person insist on half of the test being reading and listening sections that you write. Run the numbers. Their kids would screw up that half and your would screw up the grammar part. But their kids would screw up your half a lot more than yours would screw up the grammar part. That has been my own experience, at least.
Who cares? You only need the principal’s support and you already have it so why stress this?
You’re right. Why stress. If I have to, I’ll just target assessment vocab right before the test as I always have. My numbers are awesome too. These students are used to quick memorization/cramming. Then we can continue some NT CI.
Tina and I are firm on this. No mixing. Better to use half the class for traditional, or every Friday. Or one week per month. Or two. Or March, April and May. Just no mixing. In fact in the new book we offer an entire program on how to do that:
Appendix E: Language Study/Writing Focus Days by Martina Bex and Tina Hargaden
Hey Steve. Perhaps you can take more of a harder stance with your students. “This is how it’s gonna be. Get with the program.” I know it’s hard for kids to fall in line. And it takes time. But with your work in getting the heritage kids out and teaching the level 1 class before they come to you from a grammar teacher… these changes will make a big difference for next year. I’m sure. You have your admin support. Stand up to those complaining kids. You know this is what’s best for them. They don’t know, bless their little hearts.
I know what it’s like to come to the realization that I just have to fold them cards and walk away. In the past two schools I’ve worked at I started in mid year and had insurmountable challenges in at least a couple of classes each. The mixing of heritage and non-heritage was the biggest culprit. Another was the misunderstanding of what language acquisition means among the students. Another was this skepticism towards a new teacher, having cycled through previous ones.
This thread also makes me think about this fad among schools to have peace circles when a class shows antagonism to a teacher. I remember my dean at my previous school who sat in on the peace circle. She was super young and firey and no teaching experience. We debriefed after the peace circle and she laid it on me, “You shot yourself in the foot multiple times when students expressed that they wanted to learn a different way.” You know, I was trying to use that peace circle opportunity to explain second language acquisition and how I teach. The peace circle really just made matters worse. It emboldened the students to complain and defy more.
Sean said:
…the peace circle really just made matters worse. It emboldened the students….
This is such an important point. It has to deal w the level of imprinting, like the baby ducks, of grammar on those kids. They first learn that they can sleep through class doing mindless tasks and all of a sudden we bring something that requires work, is genuinely rigorous.
Does that fact mean, however, that we should not do SLA instruction days like Steven did and like Tina and I advocate in the new book? Not at all, it means we do it, but (a) perhaps not all the time. We make it clear that we will be doing grammar, just not all the time. Then when we do grammar, perhaps every Friday, our sleight-of-hand move is that over time on a Friday they would rather do the TCTG then do worksheets. And (b) like Sean pointed out we don’t make it an option to do the communication work and we repeatedly make the students see that we have no choice, that we don’t want to be fired bc we aren’t doing our job of aligning with the standards. What can they say? Sean’s point that we may be too nice in explaining things is huge. I’m culpable certainly, esp. earlier on in my CI career. We need for them to like us. That don’t fly.
The thing that has always amazed me is how for so long grammar teachers haven’t aligned w standards and have gotten away w it. There was nobody willing to call them on it. They should all be fired. But we have our own NRA, the textbook lobby, which is aided and abetted by many people.
“Sean’s point that we may be too nice in explaining things is huge. I’m culpable certainly, esp. earlier on in my CI career. We need for them to like us. That don’t fly.”
I think that early on in the year, we just relax and enjoy stories, OWI, Card Talk etc… but there has to be a time early on–week three?– to have a real talk about how things are going to go and what it means to be in a CI class.
My students’ concern was results. They have distorted views of what we can expect in terms of output and proficiency and how we acquire languages. Some of my students have been stubborn in their views but really it is what you describe Ben. They are used to “doing work” that hold no meaning or communication. Many spit it back out for the test. Some however get an F at Spanish I. To me there is no failing in acquisition only failed pedagogy.
I see what you’re saying, Steven. I admit, I had a handful of students last year that I was never able to change their stubborn views. I’m lucky that this year is different. I don’t have any of those stubborn type of students.
I also benefit from not being in a selective enrollment school. Many of my students are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants. Many have the weight of life heavy on their shoulders. Of course, so many of our young people, no matter the demographic, bear heavy burdens. My students bear the challenges of living in a different country as well as the economic hardships in the family. Doing something different, something other than normal school work, is exactly what many of my students are longing for and appreciate.
Good luck helping those students shake off that stubbornness! They will benefit greatly if they can. They need to be more open minded to help us solve our global problems when they are older.