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32 thoughts on “Like Thousands Of Times”
My heart breaks for Evan and for you. I watched the same thing happen to my son in high school French. (too bad we couldn’t have taught each other’s children….) There is hope though Ben…he is now an avid Japanese student in college. Keep on keepin’ on my friend!!
with love,
Laurie
I’m a Spanish teacher and I had to think about what they were really asking on that idiotic worksheet. How did learning languages ever get reduced to this? When was the first worksheet devised? And how could anyone have thought that was a good idea??
By the way, I mentioned to my 7th grade students last week that when you start dreaming in Spanish, you know that it has sunk in. One boy seemed quite intrigued about that possibility. I don’t think you dream about worksheets–unless it is a nightmare.
…when was the first worksheet devised…?
I love this sentence. On the surface it looks innocuous enough and a little flip, but, upon reflection, it says to me that we have simply lost our way in language teaching. Something happened. For some reason, we made unimportant things into important things and vice versa. For decades now. But when Krashen came along and pretty much proved that it is plenty of reading and listening input that bring the best results in language learning, then our excuses were gone. We are in that transition now – we are trying to right the ship, which has tumbled over on its side.
Worksheets and the “old” way of teaching a language are Dream Killers. About ten years ago, I gave that name to the way I was teaching. I could see it in their eyes and their slumped shoulders. I would hear some of my colleagues when they said, “Who does he think he is? That kid isn’t smart enough for college. He can’t even conjugate tener.” When I suggested that we should be making Spanish (and any other L2) accessible to all students and in a way they could actually use it out in the world, one of my colleagues said he had never thought of language that way. Our district holds up the AP scores from all the schools to see how a “teacher” does. So, many of the programs started actively weeding out all but the hardworking 4%er’s. In many cases, kids who really wanted to learn the language, even though they struggled so mush, were told by some, “You are not AP material. You should drop this class.”
Who are we to kill their dreams? Our job, our passion should be to help them realize their dreams.
…..”When I suggested that we should be making Spanish (and any other L2) accessible to all students and in a way they could actually use it out in the world, one of my colleagues said he had never thought of language that way” …………
Your colleague, Clarice, is far from an exception. Here in France I overheard a conversation between two Spanish teachers. One was upset because she had a Spanish (as in from Spain) assistant who didn’t understand why she was working so hard to teach the imperfect subjunctive form, saying that Spaniards in Spain rarely used it. The other teacher replied rather indignantly, “Well, I’m not teaching them Spanish so they can go to the beaches there on holiday!” ??????
Unfortunately, Clarice, these conversations happen on the daily all over the country. I hate to say it, but until my colleagues get that the kids are not buying what they are selling, things will not change. The problem is that some kids do buy it – those who want the grade, those who want to know what’s on the test, those who want to know exactly what they have to know to get an A. The traditionalist moans and groans about those unworthy to learn a language all the while basking in the reflected glory of the 4% ers who know how to play the grade game. These are our former students who will proudly say, “I got an A all through “fill in the language” but when I got to “fill in the destination”, I couldn’t communicate with the natives. I could read a little, though.” I had to take Spanish 1 at the local community college a few years ago and I am one of those – got a 96 in the class – was even helping students in the hall before class trying to make sense of what was clearly incomprehensible to them somehow comprehensible. I don’t remember much but whatever the prof wanted, I nailed. If I had had to pay for that class, I would have really been more aggravated than I already was. It was useful from the point of view that I had to face the “gal in the mirror” and realize what I had been doing to my kids for the previous 16 years. Humbling. I just re-read Kohn’s “The Case Against Grades”. It’s so salient at this time of year when the stress of grades and grading is at it’s zenith and it ties into everything CI is about.
http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/tcag.htm
Weeding them out. Like their classroom is a lawn that they want to look nice. That’s cold. I hadn’t thought of it like that. They’re not weeds.
Ben, I think the last words of this posting “before it’s too late and you hate your job” represent the best ammunition that teachers of CI have against the grammar-translation tradition. Who doesn’t want to enjoy their job, and to have their students look forward to coming to school, or at least to their language class? Of course there are teachers out there who seem to enjoy making kids suffer, but many new teachers don’t, but they are teaching in the way they were taught, and most people who become language teachers are probably from that 4%, and so are entirely different learners from 96% of their students.
I think that’s exactly what keeps bringing me back to TPRS, even after I drift away for a while. When I do, I start to find my own subject boring. I think that’s when you know you are in trouble, when you, the teacher, are boring even yourself!
Byron, I am in love w/the honesty of that phrase about boring yourself!! I am so glad that I am not the only one who has done that. HA!
I am an old gray-haired Spanish teacher who has tried so many things to steer my students toward the positives that come from learning a new language and culture. No matter what I attempted to add, I felt compelled to continue to bombard students with thick packets of grammar and vocabulary development exercises. How else were they going to be able to “learn”? Oh, yes, I did provide some “enrichment” activities of the TPRS that came with the textbook series. This year I decided to take the plunge and give TPRS a try. My students are finally really reading, writing without complaining, genuinely laughing and enjoying themselves, and scoring higher on their mid-term exams than previous years. And I am still just learning how to do this–can’t wait to see how things go when I get better at putting all of the new things together. How can I continue to see the blog after it goes private? Being a novice, I need all of the help and encouragement I can find. Thanks! Sra Vieja
Ardythe:
Ben talks about a little grammar man who pops up from time to time. He has to tame him – I have the image of an arm wrestling match. I myself have succumbed to the siren song of the lengthy grammar explanation and the “beloved” grammar packet. The kids get confused – it’s so clear to me:) I instructed my French 2’s the other day, to feel free to stop me if I ever started conjugating verbs outside the contrastive grammar model. It’s a process.
Thanks for this pep talk. I have been feeling a bit glum and alone lately. I know I am just being hard on myself and hard (in my mind) on others who aren’t as stoked about this stuff. I walked into a colleagues room to get something I’d forgotten—this is a 7th grade exploratory–and I cringed to see verb charts on the board.
I have not done one single verb chart all year. And I taught the 7th exploratories for about 10 years at least, and I am quite sure I never did a verb chart with them. Sigh. I am kind of proud of myself that I have not done a verb chart this year. I’m sure others are not. I have supported students in their requests for “structure” by suggesting they take home a textbook! A couple of them did, and I have not asked them about it. Probably because I forgot and because I am trying so hard to stick to story scripts and the weekly structure of the class and the interpersonal skills. I will be interested to see what they write about when I use Bob’s simple and slick reflection/ assessment questions.
My other colleague (dept head) has been doing textbook stuff for the last couple of weeks. She said the kids like it. Ok. I thought I might try one day of that just for a change of pace, but honestly right now the weeks are so broken up with field trips and carnival that the kids are still pretty happy to do the “regular” stuff. Dictation is an AMAZINGLY POWERFUL tool to get everyone focused. Just yesterday I did this with a super stressed group who came in very whiney and it really changed the energy instantly. I even had a kid ask several follow up questions about a structure (!!! before the dictation this kid looked like he could fall asleep any minute).
In our staff meeting we were setting up the final exam schedule and were “schooled” by the dean, who told us that since we have a 2 hour time slot, we should be giving a 2 -hour rigorous (or whatever) exam. I said to him, “Define exam,” because I am doing stories in the last week of classes for an interpersonal assessment, then I plan to use the exam period for listening comprehension and reading based on the class stories and the personalized class discussions. This is like a written form of PQA and a way to remember the fun stuff, inside jokes and things like that. I already told the kids that the “exam” would simply be more learning and that there really was no way to “study” for it because there is no canned processed junk for them to inhale and regurgitate. And I told them to consider these last two weeks as their “final exam” for the interpersonal skills.
Anyway, I feel perfectly confident about what I’m doing, yet sometimes I get this queasy feeling.
We get queasy because we feel we will be judged on “their” scale (example: verb conjugation accuracy from short-term memorization). If they were being judged on “our” scale (example: acquired true fluency during listening, speaking, and writing), they’d be feeling queasy, too. Two different paradigms (worldviews underlying the theories and methodology of our subject), different expectations, different results. We have to believe in our paradigm, but getting “graded” using their paradigm makes it very difficult. I get queasy all the time.
Chill you’re gonna have to be pumping some iron then.
With me, I have made great strides. But that big dog wanting to knock down the back door and come running in and jumping all over the company is still there. I love that big dog, all pluperfect subjunctive of him, but he can’t be jumping on people. Especially kids.
Ben,
Welcome back! Maybe it is I who should be saying “Welcome back”.
I had checked for several days and then weeks to see if your blog was “back up”, but it wasn’t. I couldn’t imagine, with your loquaciousness, that you could just “stop”. But then, it never appeared, so i stopped looking.
Then, two nights ago, on a whim, I checked and was shocked to see the blog back. I was even more shocked to see that it had been “back” for a while. I did curse (not really)…We are now–finally–on the positive end of a horrible stretch of school where we had seven snow days, school events that took students out of class, and illness. (There were times when we might not have a class for 10-13 days). We had to extend the quarter a bit so that teachers could get in some assessments.
So, once I saw your blog, I began to go back and read from the first entry. I have quite a bit of reading to do, but it is always interesting.
If you let Patriots/Red Sox fans be part of the closed membership, count me in!
Mike W.
Ben, I am sorry for your son, like all of us. What a shame!
I can’t even count how many people I know who learned in school that language is too hard to learn, or who learned that reading is not worth doing for its own sake, without a checkmark or an A or pizza or something else in return.
I have been teaching adults lately, and at first it is confusion and insecurity that they can actually learn (I like “catch” much better!!) the language effortlessly, but soon followed by appreciation and confidence. This experience so far has renewed my love of teaching language even beyond what high school TPRS teaching was able to do. Maybe it’s the vocal appreciation I’ve received, something that is rarely afforded us in a school setting with teenagers.
Pleasure to be reading your (and everyone elses’) thoughts again Ben, and looking forward to the solutions, and the rants!
The other benefit to teaching adults is that we get to practice our skills. I love teaching adults too…partly because it’s so much fun to see them gain confidence, and partly because I find out which of my techniques really works when I’m not dealing with “sit up straight,” “what are our rules?” and so on.
John you said:
…most people who become language teachers are probably from that 4%, and so are entirely different learners from 96% of their students….
That is an amazing concept. A lawn with 4% grass and 96% weeds. It’s a wonder that the weeds don’t choke out the lawn. Teachers who only want to teach their kind. Hmmm.
I don’t enjoy kids with attitude. Nor do I enjoy kids who don’t feel like they can learn. Nobody enjoys that. I’ve had my share of waking up at night worrying about how to deal with some kid who hasn’t a clue what being a part of a community means, as we all have. God bless all of us on that one.
But I try to teach them all, and it sure is good to finally be using a method that does that. That is my idea and what fuels me, what fuels this blog – the idea that we can finally end or put a major dent in the Achievement Gap. We have been waiting for a long time for a way to reach Achievement Gap kids, for a way to reach all kids, and we have it now.
Not all teachers resonate with this idea that we have a method that really works, but they don’t have to. They won’t last. There are people who contribute to this blog who, in my view, are saintly. This is no small concept.
What we do is hard work, and we do it well, and we reach kids. I pointedly disagree with teachers who claim that worksheets and the study of discrete grammar and the use of English in foreign language classrooms reaches kids it alienates them and keeps the AG alive and keeps the AP classes demographically as they are now.
I know, I know it’s a rant. I can’t help it.
The Achievement Gap is necessarily part of the point you make, John, isn’t it? It’s the gorilla in the foreign language classrooms of every high school in the United States. Those four percenters who make it to the AP level are generally white females, like their teachers, in most cases. An exclusive club. We can’t do that anymore and the X factor is CI.
I reject the notion of the lawn weeding out the weeds. I celebrate those kids who push back hard, because I have full confidence in what Krashen and Blaine and Susie have shown us. The most amazing thing has happened in my career over these past years – I am reaching kids I never could before in unexpected ways.
Our nation is just a mix. We can no longer consider a lawn with weeds as ugly. It is not. What we call weeds are not weeds. The lawn itself has become a bit ugly. Once the current struggle that we are in is over (it cannot last) we will move into a newer version of what teaching kids languages means in America. Whether we know it or not, we are all working in that very worthy direction with each class we teach, as I said above. I believe that.
The kids aren’t going to learn about the new America in their physics classes -they will learn about it in their humanities classes, in our classes. We will reach them with language instruction that lights them on fire with an appreciation of the music, the art and poetry of the culture they are studying.
Those language classes can be said to be a part of a new definition of America as truly the land of many cultures. Then we will reach our true greatness as a nation. The peaceful blend of cultures we then find in our own country will mirror the way the world will one day be.
I reject the melting pot image that some have called America. I want to live in a country in which each individual cultural group is celebrated and yet recognized as fully American. We are not a melting pot, but rather a salad bowl. With no weeds in it.
Thus is our work set out for us.
Great to hear from you Mike. And, yes, Bosox fans allowed once we go private. Patriot fans, I’m not sure. We in Denver are getting tired of seeing those Pats kick ass all over the league. And Ardythe, welcome. We share the experience of coming to CI later in our careers. I will put up information about how to become a member of the new “walled” site soon. It is really much more costly and complex to set something like this up than I expected, and we keep experiencing delays, but it will happen fairly soon.
P.S. this is completely unrelated to the points above, but I need to say – don’t want to forget to say – that I have found a way of teaching writing that really works for getting through classes in a fun way here in this part of the year when it is hard to get kids to focus. Kind of like dictation but not really. More on that later.
Ben, you mentioned the costs for reorganizing this blog. We all do profit from it, so don’t hesitate to ask for donations, would be easy via PayPal. So grateful you are back here.
I totally agree with Martin above. We all benefit so much from this blog that is possible by the countless hours you put into it. We should all share the costs.
In a heartbeat, I would share in the costs. Your blog has brought us all so much.
Boo-YAH! Weeds are simply plants that you don’t like. But not allowing them to grow has dire consequences. One look at industrial agriculture tells the horror story. Personally I am a huge fan of biodiversity.
Ok, I have to admit I have been stalking this blog for a few weeks, as I plot my unthinkable plan for a 4th quarter “extreme makeover.” Or maybe it’s “extreme super deluxe makeover.” Or just dumb. Whatever. I would sooner poke my eyeballs out with a teaspoon than continue what I’ve been doing / suck it up and wait for the end of the year. Revolution starts Monday. Yes. in 2 days I am going to begin TPRS “legit.”
I want to thank everyone on this blog, and especially Ben for hosting it, for the volumes of support and enthusiasm, affirmation and openness. I don’t even know any of you, but for the first time in 20+ years (haha, I stopped counting after 20) I am actually energized and so encouraged and inspired by all of you to do this work that I have complained about for so long yet for some reason have returned to year after year for more (mostly self-inflicted) flagellation.
I already teach this way in 7th grade, but have always caved in to the “oh they really need to churn out reams of exercises to really learn.” Huh? I learned Spanish and English at my house with no worksheets and no grammar lessons. Just sayin.’
I know that it is highly irregular and inadvisable to “begin the year over” during the last 8 weeks of school, but I am certain that my students will learn more this way. And it looks like I might even recuperate a bit of my life without the weight (figuratively and literally) of so much detritus I add to my days in the name of “teaching Spanish.”
For me at this point, there is nothing to lose. So I try it and suck at it, and everyone complains, oh well. It will give me lots of info for setting it up next year. The fact that I am even saying the words “next year” is a complete 180 from where I was a year or even 3 months ago. I have been planning my escape/bailout since last spring. Who knew that I would get so excited about staying?! I don’t know how it will all play out, and I dont have to know that now, but I plan on giving myself one more year to see if I can really teach languages and have a life too.
Someone recently posted using the term “language activity facilitator.” Yep. That is me, the ultimate LAF. “Fun and relevant activities speaking ABOUT the language instead of speaking the language! Before my long career as a LAF, I think I probably spent about 6 months or maybe a year trying to be a LG (language general). Even though I was a 4% -er, I never got the stickler gene that normally goes with it. Or it wore off after about 10th grade. So that didn’t work.
Sorry to ramble on. Since I am supposed to be writing my BS grade reports, this is the perfect moment to procrastinate and declare publically that I am going to go through with this on Monday. Otherwise I might think about how great it would be and then find a way to chicken out, because that might be easier and more comfortable.
I’m sure I will have many questions but the burning ones right now are how to go about this with a Spanish 4 class? It is a ridiculously small class. Three kids. They need lots of reading. I’m wondering how much to do in class and how much “free reading?” Also, there will definitely be some sort of “project” coming up because our school is having an art festival with the theme of “transformation” and a few kids and I had the idea to transform the classroom into a Dominican “colmado.” One student is half Dominican, and I just returned from my 3rd trip there. We have lots of connections to folks in the DR. We can do it all in Spanish, because all 3 are very comfortable reading, listening, speaking and even writing. But I have not done any formal grammar with them, other than “pop ups” but very inconsistently. Any advice on structuring any of this? Structure is my big weakness. I am impulsive and get excited about pretty much everything. This works against me more than it helps. I know kids crave a schedule or at least a rhythm so that they know what is expected of them.
Spanish 2 and French 1 I think I will do ok by PQA circling and really using the structures that we have “covered” but that they still cannot use. A few at a time. Plus reading. That is pretty much my plan for them. My other class is just starting out so they are the easiest…7th grade exploratory French. Thank God for 7th graders! Seriously!
Big question is how much to disclose in terms of why I am shifting gears at the end of the year? I feel like I want to tell them ” I want to try this and here’s why” and then give a brief explanation. Or do I “just do it” and let them notice that they learn more? I don’t think that the classes will “feel” all that different, especially in terms of my rapport with the kids, but there will be more logic and structure, which I think they’ll appreciate. Who knows? This is all a new adventure.
Oh yah! One more question: should I go to a summer conference or would I be better off doing a 2-day workshop? I did a 1-day with Blaine about 4-5 years ago, which is when I got the initial spark. Or more accurately, a profound sense of resonance. I live in NH, so if any of you are near-ish, I would also love to observe you in action!
Ok that’s it. Again, sorry to ramble, but its “waaaayyy funner” than doing grades 😀
Oops, jk, can I get the secret password to read the blog once it goes private? I promise I won’t spew so much 🙂
Gracias / merci / mesi !
Can’t answer the Spanish questions–but YES! Go to a summer conference! Go to Carol’s in Cancun if possible…you get the mornings to study and the afternoons to hunt down the presenters and ask them questions–only about 50 people, and about eight experts teaching half days is way different from 400 attendees at NTPRS. (I went last summer, and innocently asked Scott Benedict if he’d like to go sea kayaking…two hours later I had asked most of my questions.) TPRS people are incredibly generous, as you can see from this blog, so another great option is to go to NTPRS, where people like Ben spend all night coaching, and you can take the beginning session and get a student’s-eye view of how TPRS feels from an expert, then learn the theory and practice…all the important pieces in each day–
And then also connect with folks in your area, observe, watch Ben’s videos, Susie’s videos…I think observation is key.
Michele, thank you for the great input. Not sure I can swing Cancun, but it’s remotely possible. I just ordered the Susan Gross videos, though, and plan to go to her conference in Maine in Oct. Thanks for explaining the difference between the 2 big conferences. Super helpful 🙂 I can see this (like everything) is a process, and I’m only on the first step, but I feel like I have a great network to help me!
“Who knew that I would get so excited about staying?!” That is great Jen! I think that is what schools need, teachers that can regain their enthusiasm by finding a way to enjoy teaching.
I always remind myself of Thoreau’s thoughts, he said “teaching should be a pleasant experience for both the pupil and the teacher” and that is TPRS for me.
Remember we are all in the same boat, good luck! : )
P.S. Thanks to Ben and everybody for all your work and sharing.
Jen, never be afraid to start over fourth quarter, or any quarter for that matter. It’s a flat out myth that you have to know on the first day of school how you’re going to teach all year. Every year I get better and I’m not near the teacher at the beginning of the year that I am by the end of it. Why limit yourself to your beginning of year perspective?
This year I didn’t start doing my vocabulary the way I liked until second quarter because I didn’t find a way I liked until a week before second quarter started (Honesty alert: I copied Michele’s method verbatim). This quarter I’m finally retooling my writing and speaking assessments for my upper level classes because I also am just figuring out how I want to do them.
To ease the inevitable transition problems with my students, I always tell them “You’re now so much better at German that I can start pushing you harder because you can handle it now.” While that actually IS true, I leave the impression that I’ve been holding stuff in reserve for them, while in fact I’m really just working to develop myself into the teacher they need me to be.
Take the plunge. Consider it truth in advertising for your students continuing on into next year. But this will also allow yourself time to figure out what actually works and doesn’t work for YOU now, so you can be that much more accurate when you do start up again next year.
Nathan,
Thank you so much for the encouraging message. I am really excited, and even before starting I feel a huge weight off my shoulders. Love the “truth in advertising” idea. Exactly!
What is the vocabulary method you mentioned? Vocab has always baffled me and I have yet to find a system/method I like.
Ok, plunging away 🙂
Hi Jen,
I had the same question, mostly because any time Nathan says he gets an idea from me, he does something spectacular with it. He wrote it up here (somehow I missed reading this or paying attention to it myself!) http://mjtprs.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/word-lists/ And if you’d like to read other conversations about teaching vocabulary, scroll down the blog to where you can choose “word lists” from the categories in the right-hand panel. There is a discussion on word lists that has a bunch of comments that are worth reading.
I’ve never seen this post until today, what a gem, along with the comments. Does your son speak French, Ben? Has anybody on the blog taught their own children the language they teach in school?
Chris,
Months later I’m catching up on reading Ben’s blog and would love to respond to your question.
Both of my sons took Spanish in school. One started in 6th grade and went through Spanish 3. The other started in 3rd grade and made it through level 4, only because I begged the department to let him continue even though he finished level 3 with a D. They let him do Spanish 4, then said that was enough. Although it may sound like they had some good years of learning Spanish, both of them quit discouraged and broken. The saddest part: both of my sons were born in Peru then adopted and raised by a white gringo family– me and my husband. These are two young men who were highly motivated to learn the language of their birth country. And our school made it impossible because they made it an academic subject at which they were deemed lacking, not a means of claiming membership in a community. My older son wrote his senior essay on the experience of meeting Latin@ students and having them ask him “Pero, Samuel, ¿por qué no hablas español?” They both still consider themselves Latino and enjoy having Latin@ friends, but the experience of studying Spanish has left a very bitter taste in their mouths. Nonetheless, I do think they’ll find their way to learning the language at some later stage in life. I hope so.
-a-
No he doesn’t. Too hard.
I’ll repost this.