Consequences Poster Discussion (About Rigor) 2

To view this content, you must be a member of Ben's Patreon at $10 or more
Already a qualifying Patreon member? Refresh to access this content.



12 thoughts on “Consequences Poster Discussion (About Rigor) 2”

  1. Thank you, thank you, thank you – you heard me. And as far as Inayat Kahn is concerned, I could only wish to be related to such a wise person and hope that this kind of wisdom was genetic.

  2. Bobbi L Robledo

    Hi Ben, I am just joining your blog and so am not at all current with your recent posts BUT I can’t wait to see what develops as you attempt to get these 4 “kids” to cooperate. I find it so demoralizing to me as a teacher when some of my students put their head down. I take it personally, and think how rude! They are so lethargic; a few have given up, some are just tired of school and at this point have zero motivation. I tell them put their head up and at least PRETEND to pay attention but it just drags the class down and has a ripple effect that this class is not worth their effort. I need to read up on these Three Modes of Communication. I’m on my way to Colorado so I have to know this!

  3. You are so absolutely right about Blurting/ Talking over being a major infraction, perhaps the major infraction. If we can eliminate that from the classroom, everything is possible!

  4. …perhaps the major infraction….

    It’s weird because, as I said, I removed it from the Rules Chart last year and now realize it is bigger than rules #1 and #4. I feel that it is the gorilla in the room, and quite out of control in many of our classrooms. We’re moving into some pretty deep discussion here, I feel, about whether CI can even work in classrooms. It is Blaine’s stated position that the kids have to be motivated. We need to talk about that.

    And just to make a personal comment here, Judy. Whenever you write your wonderful thoughts here, which are so well expressed and reflect so much hard work, I feel happy that you are in our group. You add so much to the discussion and your insights are so valuable. I just wanted to say thanks for trying to make CI work over there in France – where doing so is probably like trying to find air to breathe on the moon.

  5. Ok. First I want to say that I agree with you and want to try this approach to classroom discipline especially next year. However I have some questions for you that..if answered..may help me give answers to the parents/admin. 1) At my college we had the idea that students should never receive an academic grade based on behavior. What say you? 2) What about the “little shits” that could care less about the gradebook? At my school it takes a kid setting off the Hiroshima bomb to be pulled out of a course (just as an aside).

    1. Q2. Really, this question has no answer. It is so absurd that our dignity be thus compromised.

      Think of it this way – we force kids into what is nothing less than a prison environment and, once they are behind bars, we tell them that they will learn the things we teach them. And we tell them that they can’t learn anything else – it has to be what we teach them.

      This is true not just in our field. Forced education in all areas, forced homework, all of that, is an outrage. So what about the little shits? Of course we know that they are not little shits. No one is. God did not make junk.

      It’s that the situation in schools is beyond hope. They must fall and we must try to hold them up. Fun, right? It’s all a big game. And we play with feeling. We play with feeling, as per:

  6. Q1. What I say to that is a big fat no. This is where you need to re-educate your peeps about this (see category here on Administrator/Teacher/Parent Re-education).

    We do not learn languages in an atmosphere that is devoid of participation. Learning a language is a social process, and, without social skills, people cannot learn languages.

    Babies, in fact, when in the Zone of Proximal Development (Vygotsky) with Mom’s face right there, cannot learn without that social/emotional piece, which to me is a divine thing, a beautiful thing.

    Children who are not given this social/emotional interaction with mom can be austistic. We are not talking my opinion here, or Robert’s, we are talking science, and heavily researched science.

    Start with Vygotsky and go to Bill VanPatten. Throw in some Krashen or Beniko Mason. Then ask your school peeps if they get it. They should.

    We can’t blame for making these ridiculous statements, and I believe those statements may be true for classes other than languages, but in our field they are false and inaccurate.

    Why else do you think that ACTFL has, in theory if not in practice, shifted its focus from the four skills (content) to the three modes (process)? It matters little that most of the ACTFL membership doesn’t even understand the shift, it is nonetheless true.

    Going to ACTFL last year here in Denver and seeing all the people walking around like robots was to me and Bryce and Jason (he even commented on it to me) an almost out of body experience.

    There we were in the Denver Convention Center, surrounded by throngs of people who, if asked, would most likely display little passion for the idea that learning a language is a social thing. Why would they, when they have their books and computers?

    Read this by Robert again:

    As you interact with students, check to see if they are fulfilling the requirements of Interpersonal Communication. It isn’t “participation grade”, it’s an academic grade based on demonstrated performance in the areas of culturally appropriate listening, speaking, reading, writing, viewing and signing. Are they actively negotiating meaning in the target language, or are they passive or even working against the negotiation of meaning? Are they observing and monitoring the teacher (not just each other) for understanding in the target language? Are they indicating the need for clarification and adjustments? Do they attempt to participate in a genuine conversation and interaction in the target language – or do they speak in their native language? I cannot emphasize it enough: this is not the traditional “participation grade”; it is an academically rigorous assessment based on the emphasis in the Standards on the Three Modes of Communication.

    Here are some other threads on the subject:

    1. So it seems that if I were looking for a simple script to repeat robotically to anyone that may dare challenge the way in which I’m implementing grades and/or classroom discipline (I am btw) I need only repeat something of that italicized piece you’ve shared from Robert. Right on man! Next year I shall have tenure and while not too naive to believe that NOTHING could get me fired… I think I’ll be less afraid (and it’s a true fear) to challenge all those that may try to convince me I’m wrong in the sake of keeping their waters as placid as they’ve always been..until I came along muahahahahaha.

      1. That’s it. I think that this year we have together learned here a few things about those people:

        1. their position is increasingly untenable, as the push towards real implementation of real standards in real ways in individual states (3 already) pushes their boats higher and higher onto dry land.
        2. they know that.
        3. with each year we learn more how to let them be, and keep our noses down to our current jobs of improving (as per what Judy just said) our ability to craft the of CI into beautiful jewelry.
        4. we are right and time is definitely on our side.
        5. a few basic points need only be repeated whenever somebody wants to push us:

        …..language learning cannot be done when we consciously try to focus on the language. It just can’t. We must focus on the message and let the nearly infinite power of the deeper mind to arrange everything. We cannot possibly remember that many rules!
        …..repetition of the TL is the only way things can get done.
        …..L1 use is bad – time does not allow it.
        …..projects are bullshit – worse than bullshit. Orcshit. They are a total waste of time if you really want to learn the language. Now, if you don’t really want your kids to learn the language, go ahead. Get through the class period. But, as Grant and Robert have said here, that is unethical.
        …..books don’t make it; talking about the kids in ways that are intereseting and meaningful to them does.
        …..etc. – we’ve got a million things to defend our position; they have none, or if they have, I have never heard one, even when, for a quarter of a century, I was one of them (long dark days filled with sadness).

        If you want more stuff, there is a category here on that – TPRS vs. Traditional. There are currently 313 posts on this topic here going back to 2007.

      2. Also on p. 43 of the Workshop Handouts on the resources page of this site there is some fuel for you – simplified key ideas that summarize the basic positions of Krashen/Van Patten/Alfie Kohn/Piaget/Vygotsky.

  7. So is the blurting/talking over rule going to be added to this?:

    1. Listen with the intent to understand.
    2. One person speaks and the others listen.
    3. Suggest cute answers, avoiding English.
    4. Clarify if you don’t understand. Other Students support all clarification requests.
    5. Sit up…Squared shoulders….Clear eyes.
    6. Do your 50%.
    7. Actors – synchronize your actions with my words

Leave a Comment

  • Search

Get The Latest Updates

Subscribe to Our Mailing List

No spam, notifications only about new products, updates.

Related Posts

The Problem with CI

To view this content, you must be a member of Ben’s Patreon at $10 or more Unlock with PatreonAlready a qualifying Patreon member? Refresh to

CI and the Research (cont.)

To view this content, you must be a member of Ben’s Patreon at $10 or more Unlock with PatreonAlready a qualifying Patreon member? Refresh to

Research Question

To view this content, you must be a member of Ben’s Patreon at $10 or more Unlock with PatreonAlready a qualifying Patreon member? Refresh to

We Have the Research

To view this content, you must be a member of Ben’s Patreon at $10 or more Unlock with PatreonAlready a qualifying Patreon member? Refresh to



Subscribe to be a patron and get additional posts by Ben, along with live-streams, and monthly patron meetings!

Also each month, you will get a special coupon code to save 20% on any product once a month.

  • 20% coupon to anything in the store once a month
  • Access to monthly meetings with Ben
  • Access to exclusive Patreon posts by Ben
  • Access to livestreams by Ben