Dude every time I go to the list, once a year maybe, I regret it. I thought my message to Curtain was a good conversation starter and it ended up as usual ruffling feathers. The worst part is I don’t understand why. It seems as if there is a hierarchy of voices there and they let you know when you are out of line. I am constantly reminded of how the list never worked for me. Like Michael said here and on the list this morning:
“The morelist has gotten a bit ugly and it is a SHAME because that is supposed to be the place that a very new TPRS teacher can go to learn more and get support. Lately, it has been a place for know-it-alls and ramblings that are often off the TPRS topic.”
The fact is that much of the public aspect of this entire movement has become about power and influence. No surprise there, not in this country at this time. I’m happy to let it go and stay here at home on the PLC, which is now officially in rest mode for the rest of the summer, thankfully. If I need to be deconfused about something, I would prefer that it be done by one of the gentle souls here in our community rather than some kind of super teacher somewhere whom I don’t even know.
I really don’t like the way Terry Waltz interpreted my thoughts on translation as some kind of invitation to do intellectual battle about how translation should be done in the TPRS universe of best practices. There is no right way to any of this work. If I felt the need to engage in intellectual battle about TPRS with someone, I wouldn’t go in alone anyway. I would put Robert and Eric in front of me and put my head down and shuffle forward while they shredded all who met them.
So as we end that spat and wait for the next (I won’t be in on on the next one), I thank Judy again and jen, as well as Eric for writing the following on the list in my defense. Parts of it sizzle:
—In moreTPRS@yahoogroups.com,
Eek! Ben’s statement “leaked” over onto the moreTPRS listserv. 😉
There is a lot of background to his comments that those not on his PLC would find confusing and out of context. Briefly:
On L1: This year, Ben has been pushing for less L1 use in our classrooms. For sure, there is a lot of L1 slack in most all our classrooms that can be tightened up. To quote Krashen: “When translations are excessive, the spell is broken” (2006). Of course, then we can dispute what is to be considered “excessive.” Krashen’s 1983 article on the Din said: “The Din seems to take a certain amount of time to start up. The case histories suggest that it takes at least one to two hours of good input.” Personally, I support checking comprehension by asking for translation, but at the same time if we made greater efforts to stay in bounds, then comprehension would also be more “transparent.”
On the title: His PLC members have had some interactions with Helena Curtain (HC) throughout this year that have led to his frustration. No details, but suffice it to say HC does not appear to understand what we do in TPRS (e.g. thinking it’s TPR + storytelling), nor does there seem to be any effort to understand it. Either way, I think a different title of the message would have been more appropriate.
Ben has not been following the moreTPRS convos this year. He doesn’t know that many have gotten ugly, personal, and attacking. People on this listserv right now are hypersensitive to that. But Ben is used to his private PLC where he says exactly how he is feeling at that moment 😉 While posters to this thread have chosen to hang on Ben’s comments on translation and the title of the message, there was a lot more beauty in the message.
Both HC and ACTFL are more progressive than the mainstream classroom in the US today (but in our opinion, both still have some catching up to do with TCI). ACTFL has been pushing “proficiency” since the 80s and yet teachers still don’t understand how to assess it or teach for it. Regardless of what “approach” mainstream FL teachers claim to be using, the vast majority are using their approach to teach a textbook scope & sequence, rendering their efforts much less effective and efficient. That s&s is highly unnatural.
To clarify (since Ben and Carrie have both referenced the October discussion had on ACTFL’s listserv): That discussion was not about TOPIC-based textbooks and ACTFL did not defend that. It was about THEME-based units and the use of authentic resources. In the end, Paul Sandrock defined a theme as a “meaningful and engaging context,” which is inclusive to our story-based approach, although stories are not what comes to the minds of most when they think “theme.” As for research support of authentic resources, there didn’t seem to be any conclusion. At least what I have read is so highly conflicted that I do not think it should be supported as a “best practice.”
I sense that Carrie is implying that the October discussion could have played negatively on her campaign to be teacher of the year. I would hope ACTFL be above penalizing Carrie just for association with comments by other TPRS’ers. These are the conversations we need to be having and what more appropriate place than on ACTFL’s forum?
I believe questioning theory and practice and respectful critique should both be encouraged. From those discussions we get some of our best insights, but those conversations have to be done in a way that is respectful, in a way that is not condescending, in a way that all sides are open to difference/change.
While I did not feel the essence of Ben’s message was to attack ACTFL, since Carrie took it that way. . . For ACTFL to be a true leader and to embrace that which is unanimous among SLA researchers they would need to make a statement against textbooks that have grammatical syllabi and topic-based vocabulary lists. But I have reason to believe there is a conflict of interest. Let me share what an unnamed “ACTFL insider” wrote me in a personal correspondence:
“I have asked for years for ACTFL to have a position on textbooks but they are heavily sponsored by textbooks so they can’t really bite that hand. ACTFL is a non-profit and they spend a ton of money developing things, but membership is the primary income. Bite the textbook publishers hand and that will hurt. Politics.”
Ok. Gotta sleep. Off to Honduras for the summer tomorrow 🙂
Eric