Unlock with PatreonThe Problem with CI
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Dual Credit Classes
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10 thoughts on “Dual Credit Classes”
I am sorry to say that in my opinion this is quite impossible, unachievable, laughably so, even with CI. The course description has in it two things that we cannot do in a 101 course, no matter what the pedagogy used is.
Here they are:
(1) …there will be an emphasis on oral and written skills and the
exchange of ideas between peers….
It is highly unlikely that students even at levels 3 and 4 can do this. No blame, just not enough time, not enough input..
(2) This one is even worse. They copy a table of contents from a book as per the 1960s and turn the learning into conscious analysis. But to achieve (1) above there must be hundreds of hours of (unconsciously focused) input. So it is like trying to run a car in both drive and reverse.
I would not do this until the people who ask you to teach the course are aware of what the research and the standards say.
These university classes are so frustrating. While my experience as a university student taking Spanish classes wasn’t so good (they were always my worst grades and I didn’t feel like I was learning anything), for my wife, it was horrendous. She attended the University of Chicago for undergrad and took French 101. She talked about having hours of homework everyday, having speaking evaluations, etc. She had to ask a friend that knew French to do her homework for her so she could pass the class. This is no small request from someone as dedicated and dignified as my wife. I am trying to undue her foreign language schooling mentality. But it is almost 20 years later and I think permanent damage was done. Argh!
Sean you know as well as anyone the history of discussion in our community about how to react to those who teach in this way. The discussion always settles, after a number of us kick up a lot of sand, on the “live and let teach” approach of “just doing a great job in our own classrooms” and it will change.
But when we start talking about student abuse – and that is what you describe – at the university level, then it becomes no longer a matter of allowing practices that hurt people to continue. That is when kick up more sand. The question is, “How to kick the sand?”
In my view, we must do all we can to stop these people. What you describe is a culture that would be impossible at any other level but in universities of four percenters challenging other, younger four percenters in the ways of the past. ‘
For me, it means kicking sand in their faces if given the chance. I’m a hawk on this one. But these people are so well placed, really immune, from criticism from mere secondary school teachers that it is almost impossible to kick real sand where it needs to go.
So…. I guess the best response is indeed to let our students do the talking when they get up to university. And wait….
OMG!!!! It’s a “basic communication” course…yet THEY WAIT A WHOLE MONTH TO TALK ABOUT LIKE AND DISLIKES.
ICK!
“French 101 is taught through the exclusive use of French in the classroom.” How the actual heck are they gonna do that when in the WHOLE FIRST WEEK they are studying articles, gender and number and negation.
I couldn’t even read the rest of the “syllabus” aka table of contents from the first century.
And this is a university class so they think that the students can handle the rigor. But that is not rigor at all. It’s preposterous.
The following text is by Robert Harrell from the Primer list above [edited down here – for the full text read the Primer article by clicking on the Primer hard link above]:
Here are the four elements of rigor that the Department of State gives:
1. Sustained focus
2. Depth and integrity of inquiry – paying attention to what is going on until I understand it, can reproduce it, and can explain it in my own words. I clarify if I don’t understand, and I contribute appropriately to the conversation or discussion.
3. Suspension of premature conclusions – I do not listen to only a few words and then think that I know what is being said. I listen to complete statements and questions and think before trying to formulate a reply.
4. Constant testing of hypotheses – I try out the language and then listen for feedback. If I used the language correctly, I will get confirmation; if I said something wrong, I should get a re-statement with correct language or other help.
5. Person Challenge – I do not take the easy way out but am always trying to improve both my understanding and my performance. I do not allow a failure to understand make me give up or be frustrated but strive to clarify and understand.
If you do a search and look through various websites that discuss rigor, most are careful to distinguish rigor from simply more or harder work. The Department of State website even cites Alfie Kohn. “Academic rigor does not imply harshness or severity. In a recent interview, Alfie Kohn (in O’Neill & Tell, 1999) states, ‘A lot of horrible practices are justified in the name of “rigor” or “challenge.” People talk about “rigorous” but often what they mean is “onerous,” with schools turned into fact factories. This doesn’t help kids become critical, creative thinkers or lifelong learners (p. 20).’” http://www.state.gov/m/a/os/44875.htm
Here is a related comment. Someone told their students that irregular preterite forms would not be on the final because they were covered on the midterm.
In lieu of an expectation to understand the forms necessary for our communicative task (student interest, story creating, OWI, Story Listening), there is an expectation that textbook pages will be covered. It leaves one shaking one’s head.
…it leaves one shaking one’s head….
Or beating one’s head against the desk of the person (representing a university) who wrote this….
I still love BVPs document, “Where are the Experts?” decrying the lack of SLA knowledge and therefore alignment of those college profs charged with teaching communication skills in the TL…
At the K-12 level we have adminz whom we know or at least can name; who do we ‘inform’ at the university level about how last century their WL dept is set up? Where does the buck stop?
The way I see it is this. A 100 level course in ANY subject is just a basic gen ed course for people who aren’t majoring in that subject to “get their credits in” (aka cram for exams and then flush the knowledge at the end). Keeping this in mind I think that the best thing we can do is teach with TPRS/CI and play the game with the other stuff. When people start seeing kids continuing on with the language and kids actually liking the language then we can talk with them.
My colleague and I have only been teaching with CI for 1.5 years, but my principal told me a week ago that the Spanish numbers at our school have never been higher. I think this is partly due to our CI. I know one of my students said he would take Spanish 3 on the condition that he is not “forced to do VHL”. (VHL= Vista Higher Learning, the online component of Descubre textbook which I am weening the department of)
I just wrote to one of my former college professors (who showed a Blaine Ray video in a “methods” course) and told her about TPRS, CI, BVP, Ben Slavic, Movietalks, One Word Images, etc.
What was scary to me was that BVP told me that even in his department at Michigan State they have teachers who still “don’t get it” and they try to teach explicit grammar even though BVP HIMSELF is their boss. Can you imagine that???
Yeah, Greg, what gives with those teachers at Michigan State?
I know one of my students said he would take Spanish 3 on the condition that he is not “forced to do VHL”. (VHL= Vista Higher Learning, the online component of Descubre textbook which I am weening the department of)
You should write these student’s words on the walls in the hallway outside your classroom!