I Wonder

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16 thoughts on “I Wonder”

  1. Oh Ben, I have wondered the same when I have looked at what we teach about the history of the invasion to this land. The Bering Strait theory is not supported by the migration stories and even the artifacts we are finding. When I asked our classroom teachers about it, their response was “that is not what the tests will ask. Therefore I have to teach what the children will be tested on. I don’t have time to test alternate theories.”

    The text companies run by rich white folks determine what the tests are which determines what teachers are taught to teach.

    How teachers are taught to teach at FSU language dept is CI. And TPRS. But what happens in their classrooms are very different sometimes. We have known for a long time that teachers are often most comfortable teaching as they were taught. So, I think we are stuck in the rut of trying to get legislative action to change the system and that may take another generation or two.

  2. Jake Firestine

    I’m not sure I understand. Are you hinting at since white people are “in power” that they come up with these ways of teaching and testing that better cater to white kids and push everyone else down? If that’s what you mean, then what about well-adjusted and overall smart black kids? Are they “more white” because they can play along with the “white” system? Or what about Asian kids who excel in said “system”? I really don’t understand, and I believe it’s these ideas that hold people down. These ideas, to me, sound like the underlying assumption is black and brown kids dumb and can’t memorize verb forms because it’s a white invention meant to keep black and Hispanic kids down. Grammar analysis has its place (much later on of course). It just doesn’t happen to be the best way to acquire languages though, as we all can agree on.

    NTCI, especially using The Invisibles, brings things down to the universal human level. This is why I was so attracted to it. It is human and speaks (no pun intended) to our human nature. My main issues are with implementing it are classroom management in my particular school.
    However, one of the worst students I could imagine being in any of our classes was a white kid. He was awful in almost every sense of the word. Kids come in with all their baggage, and yes, school is boring to them, but for many reasons, not just because FL teachers teach grammar analysis. They also, at least in my school, don’t want to appear smart, want to look cool and tough (even the girls), are addicted to tech, have low expectations, etc. I personally don’t think that my implicit biases are the main issue here. We all have biases and we try to overcome them, but in my view, my students ate me for lunch on Day 1. I couldn’t even form any biases on them yet!

  3. Jake Firestine

    And as far as testing goes, I’m white, and I’m not good at standardized tests. ISTEP (IN’s State tests I took growing up), SAT, GRE, etc. I was always average. Those “white people” in power are also hurting other white people, too, because not all white people are good test-takers. Is it really, then, about race? Does race play as big a role, or a role at all, in this equation?

  4. No. It is not just about Race. It is about money and power. And I think that as far as testing goes it leaves out a majority of peoples no matter their gender or race. Rather than being a tool to help you evaluate your growth, it stunts your growth because the tool is not delivered in the particular learning style you excell in. But it is standardized for the factory of school.

    The problem is school should not be a factory model but a community model. I suspect that is what you like about Invisables and CI. They offer a flowing conversation and require student participation in the process of making and building that flow. That allows you to get a truer oicture of how the individual student is comprehending daily. That allows you to tweak what you are doing to help that individual become more fluent in the flow. It is commu ity centered– we are all in this together. It is not a model of “if I don’t get this right I can’t play in the game.” a mistake is an whoops not your grade.

  5. Jake Firestine

    For sure. I agree that it’s about money and power. However, you and Ben brought race into the equation, leaving me scratching my head. The underlying assumption in your comment was that the “rich white folks” who run the textbook companies are manipulating things to keep themselves in power. A quick Google search to see how the executive leadership of these companies is made up may surprise you. My school uses Avancemos (HMH publishing) and their EL team is made up of different races. The narrative that white people still hold all the cards is frankly fiction. Instead of assuming that if things are going wrong, then it’s probably the powerful white peoples’ faults, it would be wise to actually research the organization to see what their stance on diversity and inclusion and such are.

    Yes, the community model is way better. Again, I think the opinions on race on this post actually hold people down and push a narrative that isn’t true. That is destructive for community.

  6. Yes. Race is a barrier. Race is a barrier we must acknowledge. “If I am not aware of the barriers you face, then I won’t see them, much less be motivated to remove them.” (DiAngelo) We white people do a great service to see the barriers that the people of color in our community face. We white teachers are obligated to see the barriers our students of color face. Unfortunately, we don’t always see those barriers nor care to open our eyes to them because it’s uncomfortable; because “they provide an advantage to which I feel entitled.” (DiAngelo)

    Jake, you should read this book. It’s a good book for white people to discuss among other white people, in particular. Then again, you are in denial that racism exists. You say, “The narrative that white people still hold all the cards is frankly fiction.” You are denying that systemic racism exists. I understand you did a racial profiling of the Avancemos writing team. Cool. They’re multi racial. I’m sure the publisher executives did everything they could to recruit people of all races, especially on a textbook for foreign languages instead of, say, a textbook of math. How about that, can you look up the racial profile of the contributors for the McDougal Littell math textbook? What do they look like? Just as an example of what you are overlooking.

    So, I don’t expect you to read White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo. But you can bet that I’m going to call out, when I can, your collusion with the oppressive system against African Americans and all people of color. The collusion is harmful. But don’t feel singled out. You’re not the only one.

    Allow me to pivot and return to your original post, Ben.

    It looks like I’ll be working more with bilingual educators across my charter school district, Acero, in Chicago, this next year since I’ve joined a Bilingual Action Committee. The vast majority of our Bilingual/ESL and Spanish teachers in our district of 15 schools are hispanic AND the vast majority, if not all, know nothing to very little about CI. The leadership of our districtwide ESL department gave that away a couple of years ago.

    But racism exists among Hispanic people. Absolutely it does. The dynamics may be different, and I can’t claim to be an expert, but I live it everyday in my Spanish heritage classrooms and working with hispanic colleagues. I’m so glad you posted this, Ben, because it makes me see how my actions in helping my Bilingual/ESL colleagues see the benefits of CI should include a study on the awareness of the racism we manifest; of the racism inculcated in our psyche as a result of being socialized as white people, which I’ll say also includes light skinned Hispanic people, whether in the United States or any other Western country; of the racism inherent in how we exclude people at the table (or in the classroom) even if we don’t intend to.

    The New York Times published an article recently called “White Fragility is Everywhere. But, Does Antiracism Training Actually Work?” Towards the middle there is talk about “privileging of particular forms of knowledge over others [in academia] (e.g., written over oral, history over memory, rationalism over wisdom).” So this is exactly how we exclude African Americans and Indigenous people from our classrooms, by privileging particular forms of knowledge over others. Oral knowledge is valid. Personal stories do reveal truth. Experience with the streets, with the jungle, away from schools and institutions of white power do mean something. We have to lead the charge in including students with these differing frames of reference into our classroom experiences.

    Plus, the SAT is becoming out of mode anyways. The University of California system is phasing out the SAT and ACT in their admissions requirements. Amen!

    1. Thank you Sean. I will certainly check out white fragility . “being socialized as white people . . .” that was a very powerful piece for me to read and contemplate as it is at the base of such much of the cultural pain of Indigenous peoples. Mvto!

    2. Jake Firestine

      Sean, we’ve never met, but you’d be the last person I’d think would be racist. I’m sure you try and have been trying to work through your own biases or obstacles (as we all are) because you’re a good person and you care about your students immensely. I admire that. That’s why I’m surprised you buy all this garbage from Diangelo, the premise that all white people are inherently racist.

      “Unfortunately, we don’t always see those barriers nor care to open our eyes to them because it’s uncomfortable; because ‘they provide an advantage to which I feel entitled.’ (DiAngelo)”
      I don’t understand. Are you suggesting that I don’t care to see the problems of my students? By barriers, do you mean their family life, economic situation, etc.? I often feel powerless as to what I can do for all my students, not just black and brown ones. What can I actually do to remove their barriers? I certainly don’t think that Diangelo has the answer which is to repent of my inherent racism as a white person, confess it to a person of color, and receive my penance by working through her workbook. I wish I could help these kids more than I am, but I know that it’s not because I’m racist against them. It’s more due to inexperience and incompetence. Thankfully, those things can be improved.

      “Then again, you are in denial that racism exists.” I never denied the existence of racism. I disagree with the idea of systemic racism today. I do, however, acknowledge that systemic racism HAS existed in our country. Failure to acknowledge that would be like denying the Holocaust. I do believe that the Civil Rights movement won and all Americans have equal protection under the constitution now, which wasn’t the case before, thus destroying systemic racism.

      “I understand you did a racial profiling of the Avancemos writing team.”
      1) I did not do a racial profiling. Their pictures and names are on the site. If a guy in the photo was black, I intuited he was black.
      2) and it wasn’t the Avancemos writing team I looked up, but their Executive Leadership Team aka the people who run the company. And yes, they’re multi-racial. So, let’s dump the whole “white people are still running the show” routine. And I didn’t look into their Math book team because I don’t care. I’m not concerned with the racial make-up of a company because I assume they hired whoever was best for the job, not because of what their skin color was.

      “being socialized as white people ” Can you explain this? Are all white people socialized the same way even in the US, let alone in Europe, South Africa, or Canada? How can you make such a broad statement like that with such certainty? Reducing everything to race only exacerbates the problem. People need to take responsibility for their own lives, whether they are privileged (and there are many, many forms of privilege, not just race) or not. We hold up stories as a society of those who did not, say, have economic privilege but rose out of it because they worked their butts off. It’s easier though if we tell people they’re victims of an oppressive society. We’ve been doing that for decades now and things aren’t getting better.

      1. Jake this won’t do. This simply won’t do. Saying Diangelo’s work is “garbage” is more than absurd. It did make it to #1 in the New York Times best-seller list for a reason that must have hit home for a lot of Americans.

        The tipping point has been reached, the conversation, as Sean was trying to let you know, has now changed. If you don’t see that, if you don’t see now that every single person in America needs to wake the hell up, then God bless you.

        I get it that you want to be heard, but…

        (insert here the entire text of Diangelo’s book)

        And you don’t know Sean either. His work history and his resume and the fight he has been engaged in in the Chicago Public Schools for a long time now are exemplary and place him in my view as a great public servant with proven credentials and leadership.

        “There is no more neutrality in the world. You either have to be part of the solution, or you’re going to be part of the problem.”

        Eldridge Cleaver (said in 1968)

        Sir – we are Americans, and we must unite against wrongdoing and act together against it as a unified whole under unified leadership. Or we could just keep talking, going around in circles, making unsubstantiated claims about what systemic racism is and what it is not.

        1. Jake Firestine

          I’ve been helped immensely by you, Ben, and Sean, and I respect what you’ve done in your careers. I mean no disrespect. I just happen to fundamentally disagree with you, and I’m saddened and frustrated by the depth of division of the American people. I agree that we’re at a tipping point, but I disagree with you and Sean as to what it’s about. I don’t believe it’s about race or civil rights. The CRM already won. I think this is all about power.

          “we are Americans, and we must unite against wrongdoing and act together against it as a unified whole under unified leadership.”
          How do you accomplish this? Through force? Clearly, people don’t agree, and they won’t. We tolerate living with other people especially the ones with whom we disagree.
          The part I have deep problems with is how one side labels the other as racist bigots, homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic, etc. This is the camp I believe Ms. Diangelo is in. When you label people like that you demonize them. This idea is reprehensible and appalling. If so and so’s a racist, then they need to be dealt with. Do they have a say in that? No, they don’t get a say, and if they deny it, then they’re the worst sort! This sort of race-based guilt has been done before but on class in the Soviet Union. Ask the Ukrainians how that went.

          “Or we could just keep talking, going around in circles, making unsubstantiated claims about what systemic racism is and what it is not.”
          You’re probably right. We’ll probably never agree about this, especially discussing it via the internet. However, I, like Sean did, feel the need to call out what I believe to be a poorly framed picture of the issues we face.

  7. …The University of California system is phasing out the SAT and ACT in their admissions requirements…

    Reading this almost made me cry. I’ve been waiting so long to read that sentence. Everything start on the Left Coast. It can’t be far away from everyone else. And each time a big nationalized test bites the dust, we gain in our struggle.

  8. Sean what you wrote here could probably be unpacked for about a year:

    …we have to lead the charge in including students with these differing frames of reference into our classroom experiences….

    So just a few thoughts at least:

    1. I’ve seen from video of you teaching over the years that yours is a permission-giving stance w the kids. That is, you are constantly on the lookout for ways to tear down the cobwebs of separate thinking, separatism, with uplifting dialogue. So that’s one frame of reference.

    2. Another might be to be able to help teachers teach in really inclusive ways. That is – and this point is very dear to my heart as I become healthier and more able to see the depth of U.S racism thanks to Diangelo’s book – we need to FIND A WAY TO TEACH CI that ALLOWS NO FAVORITISM during instructional time. We need to RECONSTRUCT how we teach using CI that allows full-on cultural inclusion in every aspect of our teaching at every moment of class.

    My thinking is that the current ways of teaching both traditionally and using traditional TPRS/CI are part and parcel of an invisible EXCLUSIONARY spiderweb and we need to tear it down and teach in completely egalitarian ways. I think you said as much above.

    Can you look into what it might look like if you put me in contact with the action committee you are working with? If they need CI training, my current Zoom group is on fire and maybe I can help a possible group of 15-25 teachers, no charge, become a second Zoom group using the new book (now entitled the Ultimate CI book bc it’s the best one) if the interest is there. I can pretty much guarantee that if they stayed with the program they and their students would benefit in terms of those biggest of words “inclusion of all”.

    If we were to do something like that, that is what I am trying to express in terms of how I as one person would like to help with the overall issue of racism, by making teachers get better at a way of teaching that slays the exclusionary results of what we are doing now, so that all kids in the classroom – it works online too – are included in the classroom proceedings and we no longer have the kind of separation of people that I have experienced over so many miserable years before I got to this higher ground point with CI.

    I know I can help teachers in a Zoom setting get their teaching to be far more inclusionary – if that’s a word – than it may be now. (Interesting that we know that exclusionary as a word exists but its more positive opposite, we don’t hear as much.)

  9. That’s very generous of you, Ben, to offer free CI training on Zoom for my colleagues in this Bilingual Education Committee. It’s a committee organized by our union, not our administration, believe it or not. So, I’m hoping the conversations are more raw, more direct. We won’t have to make sound bites to appease the Danielson Framework frame of mind our admin are all steeped, knee deep, in.

    I’m joining this committee because I want to help my colleagues understand, more generically, SLA theory and its application in the classroom. I’m going to try to listen to them very carefully so that I may be able to shine the light on CI as a way to resolve their struggles, showing them that I see the struggle as they see it, define it, and describe it. Our first meeting is happening this Wed, 7/29 at 10am. I will let you know where I see this going after that, Ben.

    Ben, do you think you could work with teachers to be far more inclusionary even if they don’t know your work and are far from seeing the Invisibles as something they will incorporate in their curriculum?

    1. Sean I find myself using the term Invisibles less and less. As with other terms like one word images, the term is losing meaning in the great melting pot that is the internet. So yes to the question you posed in the last paragraph above.

      In fact, the more I study the new “category” books that have grown out of the big latest oeuvre (the Invisibles), and the more we stride fearlessly into melding the Struggle with how we teach (a result of being forced to online instruction, partially) I could see myself working with teachers who don’t know my work. I would just use the term iclusion.

      I see two sorts of inclusiong happening. One is to work with images to “out” the systemic exclusion that happens almost unnoticed (hence “systemic”) – images can do that in WL instruction in a way that nothing else in our field can do. The other is to aggressively teach in a way that no child is left in the back (African American) or on the sides (Latinx) because of the hidden social construct active in the classroom, physical or online. Images do that.

      Inclusion is what my work has always been about, I just didn’t know it. So yes I could see working with such teachers by simply teaching them about how working from cards, OWIs and ICIs just naturally brings about instruction that impacts social awareness and “outs” exclusionary language teaching, which is the enemy.

      I’ll give you an example of what I might do with an image that brings exclusionary awareneess with Daisy the Flower in a separate article later today. At least we are now starting, at least at least, to think about how we can narrow the gap/chasm between best practices in WL instruction and social awareness.

      It’s a goal worth throwing everything we got at. If not now, when?

  10. Sean listening is absolutely what is needed in helping move folks forward in seeing other possiblities in shifting the system. I think so many educators have had so many demands for accountability thrust on them in the past two decades that they are overwhelmed my yet another challenge.

    You are right at listening to meet them where they are.

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