Unlock with PatreonThe Problem with CI
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Truth
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17 thoughts on “Truth”
I might add here, since we have the privacy of the group, that the 3 months of stories and six months of class novels reveals a way of teaching using CI that hasn’t changed in ten years, or even longer. That is not what I call growth. I call that a concretized mindset. Of course, I might be tempted to concretize my own mind if I were making that much money through conferences and book sales. But the truth is that the profession has evolved.
OK, I am a Taurus too and I made TPRS work come hell or high water. It probably helped that I also taught English Language Arts and Social Studies, so I was only telling French stories for part of my day. And it also helped that I am naturally confident, outgoing, funny (c’mon people let’s be serious, I am HILARIOUS!), and theatrical, with oral interpretation and theatre training and a lot of theatre experience behind me. Even with all that going for me the stories were often a slog. Some were awesome, some were crap, but I did stories, stories, stories, from scripts and LICT and Raconte-Moi Encore and class novel study of Pauvre Anne (which I secretly called Pauvre NOUS) and Fama Va en Californie…gosh, how I have changed. So I slogged on through story after story even when I wasn’t feeling it. God, I think back to those days and I want to cry for myself. But, like you say there Ben, it was because I am stubborn and I knew that CI was the best. Though it was not called CI back then, it was TPRS. And I **LOVED** it.
No one should be trying to do stories each day. It’s just inhumane. I have been working on the Cycles of Instruction and Assessment book like it’s on fire the last month. I am proud to say that it is a journey through step by step NON-STORY (for the most part) CI activities with a huge focus on non-burnout.
I do wish that more trainers would put stories, and circling too, in a secondary place in the trainings.
No one should be trying to do stories each day. It’s just inhumane.
Thank god for your comment Tina!!!
I was feeling a bit under-achieving because I couldn’t do more than one story during a week with three periods of ESL and the reading of the stories which took more time than I had expected bc most of my students needed more practice time than just one reading of the text; I’m talking about grade 5 and 6.
I’m not necessarily there yet with being against the class teaching of novels. I enjoy Brandon Brown wants a Dog and other books. Also the students like the feeling of accomplishment after finishing a novel. I do see Ben’s point of view though.
My point was that the conferences focus on Story-Asks but actually what a lot of TPRS teachers are doing is not story-asks most of the year, but class reading of novels.
My point was there is a divide between what is presented at conferences and what actually goes on in the classroom. Most teachers go to conferences wanting to do story-asks when they come back, but they should probably just start with the teaching of class novels. There is less vulnerability with jumping into novels since it is a low risk activity.
That is why I think Movietalks have taking off so much. Movietalks are a great activity to get your feet wet. Same thing with One Word Image.
That’s also why Martina Bex has really taken off as well, she provides a lot of activities for teachers just wanting to try things out.
We are working with Martina to bridge the gap. The new book blends our NT thinking w what she does, albeit to a very small degree.
Totally agree that there is a gap between what is presented at conferences and what actually goes on in the classroom. That won’t be the case for our 3 one-week long 2018 institutes.
Collaboration is cool. Question: because NT is such a hit with OWI/invisibles, are you moving into a direction of activities to support stories or are you planning for them to run parallel to stories?
Support. It’s the usual DNA of create sound then read it, w extension activities like WCTG. Sorry I missed you in Boulder last week.
It’s okay. I was able to play in the snow with my kids for a few minutes. I hope everything is okay with you.
I have been trying non-targeted CI (OWI/stories/story listening/movie talk) this year and it has worked better in my 6th and 7th grade classes (beginners) than my 8th grade classes (they had French last year). So just before winter break in my 8th grade classes, we read/discussed “Les Adventures d’Isabelle.” Then I asked the students for feedback…if they thought they learned more by reading together as a class, and if they preferred reading alone or as a group (I read aloud and they follow along, and we discuss as we go). To my great surprise, they overwhelming responded that they preferred to read as a class because they understood better/were able to stay engaged better! Even the stronger students! So I’m not quite sure what I’m going to do second semester! Has anyone else seen this type of response from students?
Beth my take on that and it is only based on my own experience with my 8th graders in New Delhi. They were smart kids who had started with worksheets in 6th grade – had had other teachers – and by mid year had faded to be my least engaged kids.
They were the ones who wanted worksheets all the time bc story creation required something they didn’t want to do. They certainly never approached the wonderful things that my sixth graders could do that year.
When it came to independent reading, it was the same thing – they had had so many worksheets that they couldn’t read and so wanted me to read to them. But the sixth graders, when they started reading in November that year, would have nothing to do with group reading.
I reasoned that it was that way because the eighth graders just couldn’t read very well, and had become lazy. The biggest gains come from independent reading. (See Krashen’s The Power of Reading on this topic.)
Ben, I’m totally with you on independent reading but the point for me is, when are my classes ready for this?
From year 1 to 3 I do only oral CI-work with a bit of ‘reading’ thrown in during year 3 (eg doing hangman or I spell words they know very well orally and let them guess the pronunciation, which they love).
But the real reading and writing starts with the first lesson in year 4 and in my experience even during this first year of reading the difference between individual kids is amazing. And they need class readings.
Even most of my sixth graders can’t read fluently except very easy texts. But we have decided that by next term we will give individual reading a try; that will be in the middle of February.
This is amazing, Udo. It is ideal, in my view, to wait to start writing in year 4. But why do you wait so long to start reading? In my own approach it is all about using stories to get them reading (esp. their own creations) as early as possible.
I believe it is bc we want the kids to get some proficiency in reading their L1 before we start with their other L2s (English and Russian) – it’s also what Rudolf Steiner the founder of the Waldorf movement suggested.
I myself suppose it would be confusing to begin reading in three languages during their first year and I think it might not be a bad idea to get the kids used to the English sound system so that a lot of words can be firmly established in their “inner ear” and they don’t tend to hang onto to the spelling too much when they see it later.
Maybe it is different for older learners but my experience has pointed me in this direction.
Hey y’all!
We start creating class readings twd the end of 1st grade. We do some leveled novels in 3rd and 4th – Brandon Brown tells the truth and wants a dog in 3rd, and we are experimenting with some others in 4th.
All the kids except for the very precocious readers prefer processing the chapters out loud – guided reading, not independent – most do not love reading independently.
I’m fairly confident with my hypothesis (why not?) that this is because they want/like/need to HEAR it, and they aren’t confident that the sounds they create in their heads (independently) are ‘what it’s supposed to sound like.’ I remember this feeling from sitting in many conference and workshop French demos (and Mandarin). I came to be able to extract meaning from looking at the text, but didn’t remember/hadn’t yet acquired what it was supposed to sound like. And asking me to read it made me feel inadequate somehow – like there was a competition and some new Frenchsters were ‘picking it up’ faster than me…. I just wanted to hear and see and have guided reading. I knew I wasn’t there yet – I felt hesitant to say it out loud…
To be clear – my wee ones are much more laid back about reading class created stuff independently – once it’s gone thru the comprehens-ification treatment.
Agreed. TPRS stories have too much going on for BOTH teacher and student. I try an ease into story asking by telling mini stories based off of OWI. Minimal comp checks but tons of reading students’ body language.
OWI leading to a very small story is best. I agree.