Paul Kirschling on the Grammar Ogre

4 thoughts on “Paul Kirschling on the Grammar Ogre”

1. Jim Tripp

   February 19, 2016 at 11:51 am

   In combo with Harrell’s English conjugation quiz (is that a primer too? or could it be added to this more recent primer?), this example pretty much seals the deal.

   Thanks for sharing it Paul!

   Log in to Reply
   1. Robert Harrell

      February 19, 2016 at 4:56 pm

      I recently had an exchange with a teacher who emphasizes grammar in which I simply asked her to give me the third person feminine pluperfect subjunctive of the verb “know”. (I didn’t have my modest grammar quiz handy for a fuller testing of ability.) Her reply was, “That’s a trick question. It doesn’t exist.” She wasn’t particularly happy when I gave the correct answer, showed her what it looked like, and explained why it was what it was, because she was unwilling to let go of the notion that “kids have to know how to conjugate verbs” in order to speak a language, but she didn’t know a conjugation even though she was a fluent native speaker of English. The cognitive dissonance was just too much.

      I will definitely keep Paul’s example in mind as well, particularly when dealing with people who are not language teachers. (Most language teachers probably can conjugate “to be”.)

      Log in to Reply
2. Ben Slavic

   February 20, 2016 at 5:59 am

   Jim it’s a good idea. Robert or Jim I can’t find it here. Can anyone resend? That quiz for grammar teachers would be a good addition to the Primers. We need all the rational snark we can get.

   Log in to Reply
3. jen

   February 20, 2016 at 10:06 am

   Yeah, and the bigger obstacle is they really are not interested at all / are used to sitting in class chatting and what not, then going home and memorizing stuff to get their A. So I don’t want to waste energy. I have a hugely mixed class “level 3” with a range from zero to native. Zero is a student who took spanish 1 2 years ago and got a 65. Native is a student whose parents are from Mexico. He was only 2 when he came, so not a reader and writer. Sweet and funny and seems just happy to be in class. I am giving him the writer job so he can record what happens. IN between and closer to native are 3 kids I had last semester in “level 2” The other 15 are about a 50-50 split between memorizers and kids who like to play the game and have imaginations, but none of them have really interacted in the language.

   So far they are giving me zero feedback. Aside from the fact that maybe 1/3 of them truly do not understand, the other 2/3 are scared shitless bc of the social pecking order. I found this out in a dictado translation activity that confirmed my suspicion. Nobody is responding bc there is no way they are going to put themselves out there, even verbally in a choral response. It is the most bizarre thing I have experienced. Their effort to hijack the class with incessant chatter is a coverup for their fear of showing up and recognizing each other as fellow humans.

   I never thought I would say this but it makes me long for the freshmen clowns I had this fall. What a lovely joke the universe has played! I told my husband this week, “I can’t believe I am saying this, but I miss “the crazy class” of 9th graders. At least they were just sort of bumbling around being donkeys instead of this weird jaded paralysis. All relative, right?

   Log in to Reply